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You need to consider how you can compete with the pizza eating 25 year olds that don't have a life and work 80 hours a week. If the answer is regularly a 'yes', then this clearly is an indication that you are ready. In response to Kelly Calvert:Regarding..Also, its important to keep in mind that it is impossible to provide a perfect definition of any level. Great topic. Like any organization MS has its own unique culture and cannot possibly be all things for all people. What advice do you need? Maybe Steve Jobs' psychotic approach to managing by terror is not properly described in English as "junk yard dog mode" (standing up for what needs to be done vs. mind-numbing consensus wallowing). Absolutely. This past year I had what I thought was an outstanding year, was given a 20%, but not promoted to L63. This is something that should happen on an ongoing basis.Unfortunately, it doesnt happen, and that is what frustrates a lot of people.Saying that you dont know what exactly an L63 is, but will know one when you see him is a big cop-out. This way I can be in a better position to show that I am a "absolutely!" Same applies if you started your career in Test. They know that if the team does well, they will do fine.5. However good your manager is, she or he is still a human with insecurities and ego. Senior level executive excelling at increasing operational efficiencies, improving . That's the wall you need to talk about, but the discussion would be very different than the L63 bump.And after 5+ years at L64, I finally just left. Never "threaten" to leave or waive external offers in my face unless you're fully prepared to be escorted out of the building that minute. It's because you were playing catch-up to Apple, and playing Machiavellian games with the media companies instead of working on the issues that your customers were complaining about.When will MS learn this lesson? I'm not looking for any off-topic comments let alone woe-be-me comments - remember that slap thing? I suggest understanding why it is "No" first, truthfully accepting the point-of-view as pissed off as it may make you, and then having a self-directed action-plan to get on track. In my org the cut is 70% on promos. Microsoft Senior Director Salaries | Glassdoor How? Or at least, more transparent feedback was communicated so you had a real idea of where your career was heading. As someone who left MS @ L63 - and supposedly tracking strongly to L64 - and who has seen a lot of questionable promos occur, I think it's fair to say that the rise to "Senior" follows a slighly skewed distribution curve in that in the largest bucket case, you can probably see that L63 was warranted.However, on either end of the distribution, by which I mean people who easily obtained it and people who seriously struggled to obtain it, there are some disturbing anomalies that are difficult to explain away.You might say, "I can live with the corner cases" and I would agree that optimizing for those isn't worthwhile.BUT! Can someone explain to me the leadership hierarchy | Fishbowl Satya Nadella. I'm sure others here will clarify.And apparently we will all know more in January. How do you make sure you do a good job but not too good of a job.Also higher levels will tend to require you to do things you may not like. If I ever do decide to come back to MSFT, I will do so as a level 68+ and nothing less. at I don't yet have any insight into what it might take to become a Partner, so I won't comment on that. Does anyone know what the typical salary increase, measured in percentage, is for going from 62 to 63? Thank goodness for this blog, where MS employees are free to talk about their personal struggles, unlike "other" blogs that censor/prohibit such discussions, so that they can live in some fantasy land and avoid dealing with the real issues. Getting constant feedback throughout is valuable as you can re-align and re-adjust in an agile way so that you are not shocked at review time that you have completely missed that promotion. Third, working on that weakness DAILY (but not exclusively) until they overcome it. The key thing is finding the right team and manager, along with the comments you made. Let's connect and I will happily share more about my background and accomplishment and how I can contribute to the success of your organization. As long as that's the case, I doubt anything would change.The method that this is done is troubling also. Wish I this post and comments laminated about 10 years ago after I wasn't going to get rich off stock.My comment to add is to those who are put into situations of continual reorgs and want to achieve the 'Senior'. I've been hearing some stealth layoffs around the SQL and BOSG groups, around 70+ people were given 6(?) Some are exceptional at one, and passable at others. Any idea on when is this going to change? Thanks to Mini for the great information. How many has Live hired this year and OneCare gets cut? Revise if needed. What to do?The remaining is either a) absorb into other org (say A)b) if A doesn't need testers, then VP will instruct them to find another position in 6 weeks. you need to hit the pause button for one big time-out regarding where you are, where you're going, and what needs to change. You're selling it in no less than eight different SKUs, (including the upgrades) and your marketing message is deliberately obfuscated to convince the customers to go for the most expensive one. They didn't want to plateau, but that is just where they were given MS talent pool. Great post and comments. Folks, Im really encouraged by this post and the focus on trying to help make others great. But in an organization this large, how do you avoid title inflation ? And, ironically, some titles make your manager automatically have to adjust your level after a certain time, in order to comply with certainly HR guidelines.- Buy your principal a coffee, hear everything, and dont follow everything. When someone gives you the hard advice to succeed, it's quite the gift. One of my august colleges uses the analogy of a trapeze artist. Thanks. I am not saying the manager is trying to sabotage, but when push comes to shove will you get the impactful project. It's probably true that there's more to the story and that they actually have important skills that matter. Salman Riaz - Associate Director - S&P Global Market - LinkedIn Entry level (4,718) Associate (1,976) Mid-Senior level (40,085) I am working towards it would say am there 75% of the way. It would be the pinnacle of dumbness. the higher you go, the bigger deal this is - at least to where i have gotten.Finally, not everybody will be good in every role. I sat there at L64 for 5+ years. Healthcare is the most common skill found on a senior director resume. It is true you can always do that, go to Google, go to ABC, or whatever. I'm hiring 6 good MSFT developer/consultants. Obviously a key word in my advice was explicitly. You should leave. You don't get your money by snatching it out of Google or Apple's hands, you get it by convincing your customers to hand it to you.Do you want to know why Vista is such an unmitigated disaster? This can play a bigger role even than how many times you broke the build, caused a bug, etc. Sorry for going dark for so long. Then follow Mini's advice and you should be all set. Any suggestions on how to focus on this. Continuously revisit those and discuss with your manager. Now the setup team for most products has more than 6 devs. Strong operations professional with a Master's Degree focused in Project Management from Shaheed Zulfikar Ali Bhutto . Senior Director, Industry Advisor Life Sciences Salesforce Aug. 2020-Heute2 Jahre 8 Monate Zrich, Switzerland Building Go To Market Strategies; growing and driving industry thought leadership. I work in MSN and we still have no way to know the levels of our peers. +1 on the level balancing difference in subs.As someone who has transferred employees to/from corp/sub both directions and has promoted a bunch of folk, the corp level for a role is 2 numbers higher than the equivalent sub one. At this point many people will ask how can I influence others if Im not their manager? The CSPs are a good attempt to define each level, but anyone who is looking at the CSPs and saying I do that, and that, , but Im not getting promoted is almost certainly missing the point. While I lost a few people who drove great results in that level, overall it was good for their career and also MS over time. also work is good only when it leads to results that typically means team's success. I was an asshole, but I was better than my peers at getting shit done -- I was a PM in DevDiv at the time. The job level for Technical Fellow starts at 80 and goes beyond. Going from Level 62 to Level 63 is more about EQ than IQ. I'd like to hear some more experiences from MCS. You are now 20% closer to promotion just by a day of work :). Own your brand. Typically if you can accomplish only 5 such improvements, it would be hard for your manager not to consider you for next step. Be the Rosh Gadol Microsoftie. If I'm going to be late delivering something, give folks advance notice.3. If the answer for you is "No" and you don't like that, well, what are you going to do? Microsoft - Director, Level 65 at Microsoft | Glassdoor If only your manager knows you then it is unlikely (at least on paper) that you will move beyond L62. Let's slim down Microsoft into a lean, mean, efficient customer pleasing profit making machine! We all know how many architects there are but isn't Senior the same thing nowadays ? I only wish the internal MyMicrosoft blog had posts that were this valuable and insightful. Mini, as good as your writeup is, there is too much emphasis on this level promo business in MS, and I have seen my fair share of people that have been burnt by it. No one wants an employee who is staying for the money -- and you don't want to be that employee, either. The higher you go, the longer it takes. Senior Director Advanced Technical Services - Careers At SCS Global Lots of groundwork, considerable drama and leverage but eventually it got done. Thanks for starting this. It's not enough that you do a good job for your own assignments beyond L62 but what matters is how many others you enable to do as good job as you can do and achieve similar outcomes by influencing them. I want them productive and about career success at Microsoft, especially your thoughts about achieving L63. I know there are still some out there but things have improved a lot in my view. Senior Director Levels at Microsoft 63 (Senior Manager) 64 Principal EM (Principal Director of Engineering) 66 Senior Director (67) GM, Partner (SDE Group Manager) 69 VP (70) Corporate VP (80) Executive VP (81) View 7 More Levels United States No region found, search all locations Greater Seattle Area San Francisco Bay Area View All Data Is this a normal situation and should I not be worried?MCS has different pressures regarding levels. Steven A. Ballmer Chief Executive Officer, Microsoft Corporation. Me? Stop fighting which is where mapped. When I finally figured out how to play well with others and was able to show some major cross-group gains in addition to my own leet prod dev skills, that's when I became a 63.63 to 64 was a bit of a slog -- I'd say more like a full-frontal assault on lazy management, actually :). I want to share some of my thoughts about succeeding at Microsoft and reaching Level 63, the Senior contributor level at Microsoft. The level of scrutiny by my management chain creasedup to the point where leader of our group4 levels above me in the management chain had to approve the promotion. Seems like "director" in Microsoft is not really a level like it is in google or fb (not sure what it means). 3. Here are some thoughts from a L62-er who truly wants to accept whats keeping me from getting to 63 and work on it. Whether your manager is hardcore or touchy-feely, you need a bulldog to promote you or you ain't goin' nowhere. Only one can emerge, and not everyone can be a senior simultaneously. Is this a normal situation and should I not be worried? Here are my thoughts on the Level 62 to Level 63 transition in the product groups: 1. I joined The Company 2 weeks ago, far from 63, but all you said it's very valuable for defining a career path. Ask any old mainframer what it was like to be an IBM customer back in the day. How bad is this? Hired at L58 in 2000 - Currently L62 and the last 2 promos were at 18mo intervals. This is where I agree with Mini regarding taking MSFT back to the good ol' lean, mean, and efficient company we enjoyed. * Leaving the company - oh, the all too easy escape: I have seen that mentioned in quite a few comments. Of course everyone wants to be promoted every review, so don't bother asking right after your last promotion.What matters most is that you are doing what your manager thinks deserves to get you promoted. Amazon, Go to company page Grammar nitpicking is fine when it's accurate. What do you do when your manager is an absolute b***h, a disgrace in meetings with other teams and an embarrassment on her good days? This is a great topic! (this is never a bad idea anyway) Then, if you are doing as good a job as he, he will want you as a peer in level, if not, then he can help you grow. > Lots of very true points. Your commitments should already provide you with milestones to set as your goals. Be prepared for every possible question, scenario, disaster, etc. Leadership, for instance. The estimated base pay is $243,438 per year. Get FREE domain for 1st year and build your brand new site. I'm there. This is a good list. Learning Curves and Disillusioned Learners: psychologists have known for years that skill acquisition tends to follow a typical learning curve. L63 guys are supposed to influence their entire skip level org. This is a large part of his job - getting his reports to excel and getting them (and by extension, himself) some recognition.All of the above assumes you don't suck, though. Senior Product and Strategy Director, AI/ML - LinkedIn Ahmed Muhsin - Senior Director of Sales - NEXT50 | LinkedIn Unless you know for sure that your boss's answer is an immediate "Absolutely!" Candidates with evidence of effective teaching will be given preference. If you were in the running your manager would have told you / asked for ammunition by now. I'm a level 64 lead in Windows and this post is spot on. Kiran R, Ph.D. - Partner GM, DSaaS (Data Sciences-as-a - LinkedIn But power plays are at work and I get smacked when I try and take on extra work. That is a great post Mini. And your manager will not hate you for thinking about switching -- if you are a great employee to begin with, he will just want to keep you around. What is our competition doing? If you want to advance and you are not a "favorite underling", your first and most important job is this: figure out how to become a "favorite underling". I have staff that are lvl 60 and get paid as much as folks that are lvl 62. I /like/ OneCare. I also don't know if this is the first step towards a lay-off, but for now, it seems we'll have jobs for a few more months.Ugh, not good, not good at all>I am a partner. Leaked Salary Spreadsheet Reveals Microsoft Employee Earnings for a .css-1odorsr{display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}.css-1ln5qhx{-webkit-text-decoration:none;text-decoration:none;display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}.css-1dmvvgc{margin:0;color:#0060b9;-webkit-text-decoration:none;text-decoration:none;display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}Get your salary negotiated .css-1npej63{-webkit-user-select:none;-moz-user-select:none;-ms-user-select:none;user-select:none;width:1em;height:1em;display:inline-block;fill:currentColor;-webkit-flex-shrink:0;-ms-flex-negative:0;flex-shrink:0;-webkit-transition:fill 200ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0, 0.2, 1) 0ms;transition:fill 200ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0, 0.2, 1) 0ms;font-size:1.25rem;margin-left:-4px;}or your resume reviewed by the real experts - recruiters who do it daily. Help Your Manager (and your team) Be Successful: No one has more influence over whether you get promoted than your immediate mgr. Now it's up to me to do whatever it takes to make *them* great, even if it doesn't benefit my product directly. 4. )Those are only 3 of many 'soft skills' that will hold most people, even brilliant people, back.Has every level X mastered these skills? > Where did you hear this? Do a brownbag for your VP level group, record it and send out the link to everyone. Saturday, November 15, 2008. Next, make sure your manager values your contributions and surpass their expectations, making yourself invaluable and not immediately replaceable. Here are some things from my perspective.1. Visiting Assistant Professor of Phyiscs in Notre Dame, IN for Saint Why cannot we have our address title reflect our level as everybody else in the company? It's a very rare thing that you'll find a manager who gives you the kind of actionable feedback you need to succeed without doing a whole lot of sleuthing and groundwork of your own to fill in the blanks. Its a bit like the famous phrase about the definition of obscenity. Jon Tucker - Principal Director - Data & AI - Kainos | LinkedIn The money losing groups hires. If you reach L63 during your time at Microsoft, especially if you started at L60 or below, you should celebrate. My manager and I had a plan to influenc that person and it worked. Senior->principal->partner are the level bands, 63/64->65/66/67, 68/69/70. So all you're telling me is I can't count on you so why should I? Do a great job and you are likely to revise their expectations for the following cycle. The only thing you learn is your bucket, and roughly where in the bucket you fit based on your numbers. Bottom line: Dont be shy of asking for promotions during internal transfers. Have you honed in on what aspects of this brand are most important in the calibration discussions and know how you'll show you're a rockstar in these areas? Much longer if new leadership comes from outside MS. Don't perform flawlessly to the above 70+ pieces of feedback only to see the churn above you. These guys are typically outcome of recent hiring sprees. but I have to disagree with this statement.While it is true that it is difficult for managers to say what *exactly* an employee should do to get to the next level, it *should not* be impossible to list what experiences/qualities/results will qualify him to be a *strong* candidate for promotion to the next level.And this should not be that difficult - it is just a matter of syncing up with the peer leads, and dev manager, and discussing what their perception of an L63 is vs l62. Who cut and paste buggy shit all over the codebase and don't know some of the things that a good L62 should know. The technical and management ladder in Microsoft is highly competitive and is highly regarded in the Industry.